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Disquisition by Scripps, E.W., An hour with a university president, March 21, 1909

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Ohio University Libraries, E.W. Scripps Papers, MSS 117, Series 4, http://media.library.ohiou.edu/scripps
March 21, 1909. FILE 350
AN HOUR WITH A UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT.
Benjamin I .. 'Wheeler of the Californi8, University visited me last
Sunday. He was only able to stay over one train as he was due to get
back to Los Angeles where he 6XIJected to meet E. H. Harriman who was to
inspect with him a Uui versi ty Agricultural tour train ..
Wheeler is one of those peculiar sorts of men who have a faculty
and opportunity of meeting up wi "'{,h all sorts noted and notorious men.
More than tha.t; he seems to be able to draw out of each of them SOIlle
rather confidentially personal remarks.
Wheeler promiased me a day's visit but begged off this time. Of
oourse 1 I would not urge him to stay away from Harriman. I realize the
value to himself of having opportunities and as many as posai ble) to
study this remarkable character, and also Vlheeler owed it to the University
to gi va Harriman such encouragement a,s woul d cause him to continue hi s
Ii beral treatment of the Uni VE-rsi ty by giving it free of charge; trains
and other facilities, and I said as much. Wheeler replied, ItYes~ it is
true that both duty' and inclination run together". He asked me if I had
ever met Harriman and I said "No ft. Wheel ar said that he had met hirtl
several times. and by chance, in quite an intimate way. At one time he
W8,S a guest at Harriman t shouse, at which time ao:me remarkable cOl1'irersation
took place. Referring to the almost universal press platfonn critiaism
of himself 1 Harrima11 said he did not care much about it so far as he himself,
was concerned, or so far as his tlusiness 'i'm,s concerned, but that
he was Bensi ti va on this whole SlJ e on o:ne account, namely; its effect
upon the good name that his children would bear after him. He said he
took no pains to publicly refute false accusations against him.self, but
that in all import8"nt cases this kind did take to gather t:.p
and put l.r l do cument ary f orm, even ',n. t1.-J.l aln:'f " 1 U1i::..; .V 1• t...; 8, eom:p 1 e +", e d e f ense agcun. st,...;-1lI
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Title	Disquisition by Scripps, E.W., An hour with a university president, March 21, 1909
Collection	E. W. Scripps Papers, 1868-1926
Creator/Author	Scripps, E. W. (Edward Willis), 1854-1926
Date Original	1909-03-21
Subject-People	Wheeler, Benjamin Ide, 1854-1927 Harriman, Edward Henry, 1848-1909 Taft, William H. (William Howard), 1857-1930 Roosevelt, Theodore, 1858-1919
Subject-Name	University of California (1868-1952) Scripps Institution of Oceanography
Subject-LCSH	College presidents Eugenics
Is Part Of	E. W. Scripps Papers, Series 4, Box 01, Vol 02 E. W. Scripps' Writings 1909, Book 2
Collection finding aid	http://www.library.ohiou.edu/archives/mss/mss117.html
Call Number	mss117/ser4/box01/book02/071-076
Original Format-AAT	Essays
Publisher	Ohio University Libraries. Mahn Center for Archives and Special Collections
Type	Text
Format [IMT]	Application/pdf
Physical dimensions	6 p.; 11 x 8.5
Identifier	ser4_box01_vol02_071-076_university_president.pdf
Donor	Scripps, Charles E. (Charles Edward), 1920-
Rights Information	In the public domain. Unpublished works are under copyright for the life of the author + 70 years
Citation	E.W. Scripps Papers, Mahn Center for Archives & Special Collections, Ohio University Libraries
Transcript	Ohio University Libraries, E.W. Scripps Papers, MSS 117, Series 4, http://media.library.ohiou.edu/scripps March 21, 1909. FILE 350 AN HOUR WITH A UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT. Benjamin I.. 'Wheeler of the Californi8, University visited me last Sunday. He was only able to stay over one train as he was due to get back to Los Angeles where he 6XIJected to meet E. H. Harriman who was to inspect with him a Uui versi ty Agricultural tour train.. Wheeler is one of those peculiar sorts of men who have a faculty and opportunity of meeting up wi "'{,h all sorts noted and notorious men. More than tha.t; he seems to be able to draw out of each of them SOIlle rather confidentially personal remarks. Wheeler promiased me a day's visit but begged off this time. Of oourse 1 I would not urge him to stay away from Harriman. I realize the value to himself of having opportunities and as many as posai ble) to study this remarkable character, and also Vlheeler owed it to the University to gi va Harriman such encouragement a,s woul d cause him to continue hi s Ii beral treatment of the Uni VE-rsi ty by giving it free of charge; trains and other facilities, and I said as much. Wheeler replied, ItYes~ it is true that both duty' and inclination run together". He asked me if I had ever met Harriman and I said "No ft. Wheel ar said that he had met hirtl several times. and by chance, in quite an intimate way. At one time he W8,S a guest at Harriman t shouse, at which time ao:me remarkable cOl1'irersation took place. Referring to the almost universal press platfonn critiaism of himself 1 Harrima11 said he did not care much about it so far as he himself, was concerned, or so far as his tlusiness 'im,s concerned, but that he was Bensi ti va on this whole SlJ e on o:ne account, namely; its effect upon the good name that his children would bear after him. He said he took no pains to publicly refute false accusations against him.self, but that in all import8"nt cases this kind did take to gather t:.p and put l.r l do cument ary f orm, even ',n. t1.-J.l aln:'f " 1 U1i::..;.V 1• t...; 8, eom:p 1 e +", e d e f ense agcun. st,...;-1lI {...i_ lLn Hour--3-21-09--#2 his charges. Roosevel t J he referred to his controversy with President el:' letter, or rather what Roosevelt had charged against him. He then turned to his wife, Wire. Harriman, and said, ulmry, please go to your safe and get the papers in that Webster case". Mrs. Harriman went and returned with several documents, probably Harriman's own statements; and various affidavits made and signed by principals reliable witnesses. He had Wheeler read these allover» and rel?.o. them aloud to himself and wife. Wheeler indicated that it was thus Harrima.n's C1 save all the nece8~3ary evidence which would satisfy ~ ,ill after years; his own children that their father had been falsely maligned in his life time.. I asked Wheeler if he knew what Harriman was rf;ally thinking about affairs political and economic J ()r whether he was thinking at allan such subjects. He said "Yes.. He said that Harrimal1 had some quite rerr.arkable socialistie ideas, that he would not say that he was a Socialist, he seemed to think that Socialism might be Uld pro"bably would be inevitable.. This matter somewhat disturbed Harrimanta mind. He said he vIas will enougp. to gi va up to the people all or most all he had voluntarilly 1 but he did not want it taken away from force.. Harriman, he said, was himself more SU1l)xised that anyone c16£ regarding his Dvm peculiar success or position life. s£8meu not to be able to COrrIIJrehend how it all came ar)out.. on, money power had been thrust on him so rapidly and amounts as to daze While Harriman violently enouf}l defended his course and claimed thai. he had only done what had a [ina he to do, seemed to have periods of great doubt he vmuld seek for the opinions to learn from others vlhat he had embarras sed himsel f ( questions on this subject. e once All Hour--3-21-09--#3 I laughed and said "Mr. Vfueeler you are far too acute a man a.nd too loyal to the University nothing but the truth h • the statement out of my c "You are tell him the whole truth and I did not II • Thus Wheeler took Harriman, "Wheel€n~ said, rs he do and eler me I saidi "Harriman ought can all rest of his life just lS worth--to be the shoe-maker and sti his last, and trv to fool.J with any- other kind of especially not, to turn himself fool philffilthropist and pla.y the Carnegh~ thus do an of ha:r.m". "~~he world needs", I said} u"the C~ersJ Napoleons Rothchilds, Rockefellers, the Harrimans, the Goulds and the Boss Tweeds. It needs virile men to live out their 1 s tnle to their o\liIll natures J by bodily fear or even the scorn or laudation of their fellowse" "By Jove! I think that's so" said the University Pre A moment later said Wneeler; "Say, I am going to come dovvn some day and try to at you stigation that I have a 1 but I foreet. The scheme he compared.reaearch station.. I· nsv<I- ea" a 0 f the life and nature of unrational gathering data to find out For instance, having :.DH as a new scheme of re on" <I Vle are J(i'n s B1' ass and animals) l~ of soel eost necessary to keep a family, she is investigating househol ":'vhat things really did cost the indi constmled without regard to lees value. r name, ogical find out were An hour--3-21-09--#4 he said, "she has got Mrs. Vfueeler interested to the exte~t that ehe is 'burning over to her, (the investiga.tor) all of the cost of her OVil1 house-. hold and telling the why and wherefor of her various expenses and domestic arrangement f',. " 'Ibis led~·' to a Budden dash into the subject of eugenics. "Yes yes· ) , said Wheeler # "I too, have read something of those matters. I w'lbsh 1 had more time to give to them. It is a tremendously important eubject". ItI particularly am interested in the question of sterilization of unfit men and women to prevent their breeding. The population of the world is growing so fa.st that all the waste places are being taken up by unfit hu.ma.nity. Absence of warfare, great national organization and Providence, medical science and hy@.sne are causing the fami.lies to multiply so rapidly that it is only a question of time) when th~ race, o}:' when its various gover:nm~lnts will be absolutely compelled to take up the subj act of eugenics and regulate the birth rate, particularly with a view to restrict the breeding of some people with classes of people and encouraging the breeding of others.-lSix months agol prior to the nomination to the presidency of Mr. Taft, V~heel er and I met and had an afternoon's fierce controversy on the subject of Taft's fitness for the Presidency from the standpoint of democracy. Wheeler asserts that he is a democrat, of course, with a small d, and it is quite clear enough that his sympathy is all against aristocracy. I maintained that Taft was an aristocrat born and bred, and as a lawyer trained and a Judge I he had to be a type of that class.. I spoke of Taft as a natural born Attorney. He always saw the rlghteO'Qan6sa of his elients cause. As Cabinet officer , the President his client. Taft 48ni'N~"'-.r~t";'>McKinley was the Had Bryan or ant and Taft been in tlJ,eir Cabinet, he would have But I said that when Taft An Hour--3-21-09--#5 became President, he would have to have a client and that that client 'Would necessarily be a composite of all the ari stocratic and ca.pitalt~tic cla.ss in the country. He would be a wise and able servant to tbis-_ ster and then Roosevelt would wonder how it was that he had 80 ~nistaken Taft. It tool, about one jump to get out of eugenics into present politics. Wheeler said; iiI am not going to wait until you have said, tI told you ao' ", or words to t:b..at effect. iiFrom the tiUI.6 I last saw you everJ-thing has happened as you predicted and contrary to what I said. I attended the convention that nominated Taft. I there saw disgustingly evident that the Taft boom was a famil I..T affair.. His brother Charlie Taft was there and painfully in evidence". "But still i I believe that Win. H. Taft was not blwne for SIlO Tnen can16 the appointment of Knox as Secretarj of State. I almost gave ape Now here is Wickersham and Dickenson and Wayne ~~cVeav;h; in fact, seven lawyers in a Cabinet of nine. I! "He told me 1# he said 1 "that you expected some day to be a of the party of which Roosevelt lwuld be the head and that there would be a whole chasm yawning betvleen the party that you and RooBevel t ato for ~d that which Taft would represent." "I will not predict anything) but I think it is altogether 1 Mr. Scripps) that you are goin[~ to have a chance to in your ~apers and vote for our Teddy Roosevelt on an independent ticket running :lgainst Taft. It In about two minutes we attended to all the business that ar ~ame to see me about, namely: the tn;!Ilsfar University of the ;,Jroperty and money endowment of the Marine Biological fltation, and t.he auto whizzed him off to take the up train.. He left the radical t'evolutionist to be either or at of An Hour--3-2l-09--#6 I stand flTTT and that Wheeler says that he stands for. Sometimes I think that Wheeler is merely a brilliant and versatile social genius and that his opinions are se~ond hand and that he has no capacity' better than to reflect in an agreeable way the opinions of the men he attacks. I cannot recall within our several meetings and debates that he ever radically opposed me except at the time when we discussed Taft. He is a terribly busy man. He is constantly being brought into contact with persons and policies of very varied kinds. He must have a very agile and a veJ'Y strong mind indeed and one that works with lightning rapidity to digest maturely- all the mental food that is forced upon him. MY own peculiar position requires me to go hopping, skipping and jumping, not only from one set of subj ects to another but to such varied sets of ideas as to utterly preclude continuity of mood and of sentiment and.of ratiocination, but I believe that ~~eeler is in a far worse pligflt than I am. The diff'icul ty is not in the quantity of matter that is 8ubj ect to reason. The strain comes in changing the base of thought--the point of view. I should think that even the most nimble witted of men placed as Wheeler is, would suffer under the strain of these constant changes. Dictated by E. W. Scripps, Miramar! California, lvi'arch 2 at J 1969.

Title	Page 1
Collection finding aid	http://www.library.ohiou.edu/archives/mss/mss117.html
Transcript	Ohio University Libraries, E.W. Scripps Papers, MSS 117, Series 4, http://media.library.ohiou.edu/scripps March 21, 1909. FILE 350 AN HOUR WITH A UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT. Benjamin I.. 'Wheeler of the Californi8, University visited me last Sunday. He was only able to stay over one train as he was due to get back to Los Angeles where he 6XIJected to meet E. H. Harriman who was to inspect with him a Uui versi ty Agricultural tour train.. Wheeler is one of those peculiar sorts of men who have a faculty and opportunity of meeting up wi "'{,h all sorts noted and notorious men. More than tha.t; he seems to be able to draw out of each of them SOIlle rather confidentially personal remarks. Wheeler promiased me a day's visit but begged off this time. Of oourse 1 I would not urge him to stay away from Harriman. I realize the value to himself of having opportunities and as many as posai ble) to study this remarkable character, and also Vlheeler owed it to the University to gi va Harriman such encouragement a,s woul d cause him to continue hi s Ii beral treatment of the Uni VE-rsi ty by giving it free of charge; trains and other facilities, and I said as much. Wheeler replied, ItYes~ it is true that both duty' and inclination run together". He asked me if I had ever met Harriman and I said "No ft. Wheel ar said that he had met hirtl several times. and by chance, in quite an intimate way. At one time he W8,S a guest at Harriman t shouse, at which time ao:me remarkable cOl1'irersation took place. Referring to the almost universal press platfonn critiaism of himself 1 Harrima11 said he did not care much about it so far as he himself, was concerned, or so far as his tlusiness 'im,s concerned, but that he was Bensi ti va on this whole SlJ e on o:ne account, namely; its effect upon the good name that his children would bear after him. He said he took no pains to publicly refute false accusations against him.self, but that in all import8"nt cases this kind did take to gather t:.p and put l.r l do cument ary f orm, even ',n. t1.-J.l aln:'f " 1 U1i::..;.V 1• t...; 8, eom:p 1 e +", e d e f ense agcun. st,...;-1lI {...i_

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Disquisition by Scripps, E.W., An hour with a university president, March 21, 1909

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